Archives For 30/11/1999

Come behind the scenes and into the jobs, the challenges, the highlights, and the personalities of the people who work at the Department of Conservation (DOC).

Today we profile Avi Holzapfel,Terrestrial Ecosystems Manager in Hamilton.

At work

Avi Holzapfel in the sun on Rangatira Island, Chatham Islands.

Roughing it in the Chatham Islands in autumn

Some things I do in my job include:

Managing a team of amazing technical and science advisors. When I say managing, I really mean supporting (but ‘supporter’ does not sound good as a job title). Until entering the lofty heights of lower management I focused on species recovery planning as a leader of the Kiwi Recovery Group for 6 years, leading native frog and dactylanthus recovery groups, helping to develop the new Natural Heritage Specialist Group framework and being a Conservancy Advisory Scientist.

This helps achieve DOC’s vision by:

Helping staff to do their best, and what is best for DOC.

The best bit about my job is:

Being allowed to work with keen, skilled, dedicated (and often very funny) people who share a sense of values and direction. To be part of the development of ‘things’ (strategies, processes, tools, communications) that make sense and are useful. To answer lots of emails (OK, that one is only half-true). To have the occasional trip outside to wonderful places and projects and actually being able to tell myself that I have a good reason to be there! To learn from the best teachers ever, which is everyone and everything.

A large brown frog up close in Panama.

A seriously large frog in Panama

The awesome-est DOC moment I’ve had so far is:

A few come to mind—abseiling with Dave King down a bank at Te Araroa during a dactylanthus search, using supplejack. Not the best idea, especially if it would have turned out that we were still slightly in the wrong place… (that was, of course, before I joined DOC and understood health and safety matters). Nest-minding on Codfish during the 2009 bumper breeding season, reading Lord of the Rings waiting for the female kākāpō to come back to her nest on night watches and hearing Herb Christophers sing the ‘Little Kākāpō’ song he wrote during those long hours—the night sure does strange things to people out there. Counting black robins with Dave Houston on Rangatira Island—often they were so close that I had to move away from them to read their bands. And (seriously) developing a good idea or strategy with staff—thoughts flying, heads hurting, passions glowing, and then all of a sudden we all get it—priceless (until someone shows us where we missed a bit).

The DOC (or previous DOC) employee that inspires or enthuses me most is… there are too many in DOC to do justice, therefore I’ll go outside the rule here (me, a German, can you believe it?) and say Kevin Hackwell, Advocacy Manager at Forest and Bird and a member of the Kiwi Recovery Group. He combines the skills of a terrier (not letting go) and a falcon (seeing the big picture) with a genuine good nature and an ability to target the issue, not the person. A real bridge-builder and the kind of constructive-critical friend everyone needs.

A rainbow over the Tapu Valley, Coromandel.

The view from our hut over the Tapu Valley towards Maumaupaki, Coromandel

On a personal note…

Most people don’t know that:

I have just enrolled to run my first (only?) half-marathon during the Auckland marathon in November. I’ll do it as a charity runner for Kiwis for kiwi, raising funds for kiwi recovery while proving to me and the world (well, at least previous school mates who teased me) that those are legs, not sticks! So I will shamelessly use this opportunity to advertise my fundraising page and ask for your donation, your support by forwarding it to your friends (all of them!), and to consider running yourself. There a still a couple of places left. If you are still not motivated let me know and I will give you the emotional story of my journey from desk-bound weakling to Bruce Willis-like hero in just 3 months! Seriously, though, I’ll appreciate any support for a great cause (kiwi, not my legs).

In my spare time:

I go fishing (great supplement to an otherwise vegetarian diet), read until my head hurts, cook, and play saxophone in a big band—best thing ever is when people start dancing! And spending time at a wonderful piece of land in the Coromandel that we became the custodians of some years ago. As close to paradise (with weeds) as I have come yet.

If I could be any New Zealand native species I’d be:

kauri tree—roots deep in the soil, tall, quiet, ancient.

Photo of the Holzpfel family on the couch.

The traditional Christmas photo of our family

My secret indulgence is:

Not so secret: movies! Any and all (except horror), high and low-brow, and for all ages. I used to have a specific part in my brain able to store lots of useless detail of most movies I have ever seen, and recall them at will. These days I might still store them, but the recalling bit is getting harder. My daughter (now 21) is stepping up as a real challenger for movie trivia. Ah well, a master is happy when the pupil is exceeding him…

Before working at DOC I:

Trained as a chef (very briefly), worked as a tiler (still love doing that), rolled vegetarian spring rolls in a commercial kitchen in Berlin and spent lots of time at uni (time well spent! Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!)

Deep and meaningful…

Dactylanthus taylorii.

A male inflorescence of Dactylanthus taylorii

My favourite quote is:

Red sky at night: she’ll be alright. Red sky in the morning: she’ll be alright (fisherman’s weather check)

The best piece of advice I’ve ever been given is:

During my first travel to New Zealand someone talked about the New Zealand Wildlife Service and suggested I study in biology and then come here. Can’t believe this is what actually happened!

In work and life I am motivated by:

Teachers—the official ones, the unofficial ones and in particular those who have no idea they just taught me!

My conservation advice to New Zealanders is:

Take a holiday in Europe, where the damage to the environment was pretty much done hundreds of years ago. Then come back to New Zealand and look at how much we still have to lose, and still can protect!

The Terrestrial Ecosystem team at Mt. Tarawera.

The wonderful Terrestrial Ecosystem team at Mt. Tarawera

Question of the week…

My edible house would be made of:

Fried tofu. A seriously misunderstood food.

Come behind the scenes and into the jobs, the challenges, the highlights, and the personalities of the people who work at the Department of Conservation (DOC).

Today we profile conservation stalwart, Mangaweka Ranger, Alison Dorrian, who retires from DOC today.

At work

When did you start working at DOC?

Alison with a glass of Guinness at Temple Bar in Dublin.

Alison with a glass of Guinness at
Temple Bar in Dublin

I started working part time for the NZ Forest Service around 1979, when my husband went to Raoul Island for three months leaving me and Ranger Will Abel in charge of things in the North West Ruahines.

I needed to be employed to legitimise my driving of departmental vehicles and signing my name to hunting permits etc.

I was part time from then through until starting at DOC, when I helped set up the Mangaweka Field Centre.

At the time, the Mangaweka Field Centre had a public office. I had the grand title of Field Centre Support and did all the admin work. We also had the Postal Agency in our office, so were very much in the public eye.

About 10 years ago the public office at Mangaweka closed. At that point I had the option to become a field worker or to leave. So it was then that I began to learn to ride all-terrain vehicles (ATV’s), do possum and rat monitoring, fencing, weed spraying…

It’s been a busy life and will continue to be busy… just unpaid.

Lunch in the Pourangaki with Toby, the dog, Kathleen and Ted, about 1974

Lunch in the Pourangaki with Toby the dog and two of my kids
Kathleen and Ted. About 1974

Some things I do in my job include:

Killing things—mainly weeds… or preparing ground, aerial and abseil contracts for other people to kill them; I’m the local contact for hunting and possum permits, and access issues; I liaise with Regional Council weed staff, local community groups and schools; I repair fences, monitor possums, rats and threatened plant species…

This is me with Henry during a RTC (residual trap catch) monitoring trip to Lake Colenso.

With Henry during a RTC (residual trap catch) monitoring trip to Lake Colenso

This helps achieve DOC’s vision by:

Being out there doing.

The best bit about my job is:

The views, the sounds and smells, followed closely by the people.

On our way to view the Mangaweka Scenic Reserve Dactylanthus in 2009.

On our way to view the Mangaweka Scenic Reserve Dactylanthus in 2009

The funniest DOC moment I’ve had so far is:

Being stuck in the mud rescuing eels after having drained a pond to eradicate the koi carp. Finally got out with the help of a shovel. Now where’s that photo gone…

The DOC (or previous DOC) employee that inspires or enthuses me most is:

My husband Henry who left us in March 2012. He had a way about him that inspired many. We miss you Henry.

On a personal note…

The song that always cheers me up is:

Seed Trap collection on a frosty morning at Paengaroa Mainland Island

Seed Trap collection on a frosty morning at Paengaroa Mainland Island

Anything by John Foggerty, JJ Cale, or Kris Kristofferson. Also, after last Friday night, Wagon Wheel by Old Crow Medicine Show.

My stomping ground is:

The Kawhatau Valley where I grew up and where I first met Henry. It’s simply home!

My best ever holiday was:

Six weeks in Europe with my youngest daughter, followed closely by a weekend at Mokai Hut with my son and grandson last year.

In my spare time I:

What spare time?!

If I could be any New Zealand native species I’d be:

A falcon, with the wind beneath my wings.

My secret indulgence is:

Red wine, but it’s no secret.

If I wasn’t working at DOC, I’d like to be:

A historian… that’s the next chapter.

Before working at DOC I:

Worked for the New Zealand Forest Service and, before that… my memory fails me.

Deep and meaningful…

My favourite quote is:

At the moment “There is no poison on earth more potent, nor half so deadly, as a partial truth mixed with passion” ~ Michael J. Tucker.

The best piece of advice I’ve ever been given is:

My Dad telling me “If you’re cold, get away from the front of the fire and go and chop some wood.”

With Henry and four of our six children at my 60th. From L to R Sara, Bill, myself, Ted, Henry, Kathleen

With Henry and four of our six children at my 60th.
From L to R Sara, Bill, myself, Ted, Henry, Kathleen

In work and life I am motivated by:

Children… the next generation.

My conservation advice to New Zealanders is:

I don’t usually give advice, I like to lead by example, BUT just get out and learn what NZ has to offer… and enjoy!

Question of the week…

What will you miss most about working at DOC?

There is no need for me to miss anything… all the reasons for my enjoyment of the job over the years, I can take with me: The good friends I have made, the places I feel at one with, the ones that energise and inspire me, the awareness and appreciation of the environment around me.

If I’m feeling a little un-attached I can always go and cut some Old Man’s Beard—there’s plenty left. Or I may take some time to instil in the next generation some of that awareness and appreciation.

Come behind the scenes and into the jobs, the challenges, the highlights, and the personalities of the people who work at the Department of Conservation (DOC).

Today we profile James Willcocks, Volunteering Manager, National Office.

At work

James standing in front of the Tarawera Falls.

Tarawera Falls

Some things I do in my job include:

Cheerleading the fantastic and funky Volunteering Team.

Listening and learning about what is going on for people working with volunteers, where the issues are and how we can best deliver what’s needed as a team. This is about really trying to stay connected.

Celebrating and sharing what our people are achieving through working with volunteers.

Bringing conservation to new audiences through national partnerships and opportunities for others to participate.

Where things are working well, actually endeavouring to stay out of the way.

Unfortunately, I also spend a fair amount of time in meetings which is the inevitable yet less inspiring part of the job.

This helps achieve DOC’s vision by:

Raising awareness and creating opportunities to involve more people in conservation in new ways because each and every one of us has some role to play in achieving this massive vision.

Making it easier for people to work more effectively with volunteers and for our volunteers to work more effectively with us.

The best bit about my job is:

Being relatively new to this job I am constantly amazed at some of the incredibly innovative ways our people are working with others. From having people volunteering remotely from home in an overseas country to develop technical solutions, to having students launch their careers contributing their thinking and energy to new design projects, to groups of specialised fire fighters ‘Hotshots’ from the States coming to NZ in the off-season as self contained and highly capable work crews, the list goes on and on.

Stepping back and just considering the immensity of who’s out there willingly contributing their time, energy, enthusiasm and commitment to this thing called conservation, it is very humbling.

James with his nephews Leo and Luca— before chopping off his dreads.

My nephews Leo and Luca—little legends. Moments before the big chop in 2012

The strangest DOC moment I’ve had so far is:

Getting a call out to Ashpit Road Camp Ground on the shores of Lake Rerewhakaaitu to retrieve ‘some meat’ that had been dumped along the lake shore as it was starting to exhibit signs of decay.

Being somewhat dubious as one is when receiving calls of this nature (never quite knowing what to expect), another Ranger and I loaded up some waders and were off.

Upon getting to the campground we were confronted by the relatively grim site of what appeared to be the entire contents of a medium sized butchery floating in the azure lake shallows, this was not someone’s freezer contents.

There was everything from strings of sausages, rolled roasts and chops to leg roasts and steaks all bobbing along in various states of decomposition.

Left contemplating a certain career decision and the value of that hard earned university degree, I suited up.

In any case, after a solid day’s toil we had retrieved the necessary product and trundled back to town. None the wiser as to the who or why to this very day.

As strange as this may sound, it is the unpredictable nature of operational work that I still miss the most.

The DOC (or previous DOC) employee that inspires or enthuses me most is:

I’ve worked for and with so many incredible people in my 11 years with this fine organisation but in terms of choosing just one it would have to be the mighty Reg Phillips, my first boss. He taught me the value of bringing other people on the journey, supported my development implicitly and was the first person to take a chance on this simple lad from Rotorua, employing me in my first job as a Visitor Assets Ranger. He taught me a lot about leadership and really made everything else that has followed possible—so massive thanks and respect Reg!

James standing in front of Lake Tarawera.

My happy place – windfall runs on the lake shore tracks of stunning Lake Tarawera

On a personal note…

The song that always cheers me up is:

No Rain by Blind Melon, a double dose of positivity if accompanied by the video.

My stomping ground is:

Our nation’s cultural capital and birthplace of tourism—Rotorua. With its multitude of lakes, steaming hot pools, forests, endless recreation opportunities and geothermal heartbeat, all interlaced with a sweet sulphurous scent, how could one want for anything else. Proudly Vegas born and bred!

James and his brother in Aspen, Colorado.

Me and my brother taking a break from doing some damage to the Highland slopes in Aspen, Colorado last year

My best ever holiday was:

I took a good wedge of leave without pay from DOC and spent close to a year wandering through Central/South America including a long stretch volunteering in Mindo Cloud Forest in Ecuador.

It is a stunning place and amazing opportunities to see the complexities inherent in conservation play out in the everyday lives of a small community.

This was a challenging reality check for an idealistic Kiwi boy seeing both local environmental protection and wider development aspirations collide in such a confined and confronting setting.

In my spare time:

I spend as much time getting amongst it in the outdoors as possible usually riding, skiing, tramping or being in/on/under the water doing my best to harvest a feed.  I love to travel, it’s a lifelong affliction wandering through strange and colourful places, experiencing cultures so profoundly different to my own and of course all of the people.

Other than that I try and spend as much time with my whanau as I can, that’s where I draw both strength and identity. We’re spread throughout New Z these days so time together is super precious.

My secret indulgence is:

I do have a solid appreciation for decent tequila and an unholy alliance with German trance music.

James off for a tramp with work colleagues.

Off for a tramp with the Capability Development Team (my last team)

Deep and meaningful…

My favourite quote is:

We lose much by fearing to attempt” I’m not sure who it’s from but it has always served me well in those moments of intrepidation.

The best piece of advice I’ve ever been given is:

“Son, life is not a straight line” – My Ma

In work and life I am motivated by:

People that believe in something and are prepared to back that up with action. It’s easier to be critical of something and do nothing about it than stay the course. When I see people doing the hard yards it becomes a little harder for me to moan about trivial things that just don’t matter.

My conservation advice to New Zealanders is:

I am a massive advocate of experiential learning so I would say if you haven’t afforded yourself the opportunity to go and do something in nature, then get out there, it’s good for you.

And if I was afforded a ‘soap box’ moment my advice would be: remember we are part of the environment, we are most definitely not separate.

James drinking from the cup after winning the Wellington Dragon Boat Festival.

Rehydrating after winning Gold in the Social Final of the Wellington Dragon Boat Festival as part of our mighty Doctopus Dragon Boat Team

Question of the week…

What did you do with your dreadlocks?

Someone once told me I’d be able to sell them to a wig maker, so I still have those ones and their predecessors. I still haven’t found this person!

Come behind the scenes and into the jobs, the challenges, the highlights, and the personalities of the people who work at the Department of Conservation (DOC).

Today we profile Kirsten Ralph, Commercial Manager, National Office.

Kirsten Ralph on a mountain, with a range in the background.

Enjoying the snow

At work

Some things I do in my job include:

Lately I have been preoccupied with the joys of business planning. The rest of the time I have been working to instigate the concept of account management for businesses that we work with and trying to recruit some neat people into the Commercial team.

This helps achieve DOC’s vision by:

We get to apply business frameworks and thinking to the far more interesting area of conservation. Businesses are good at building up assets and then using them (without damaging them) to make more. The difference is that instead of money in the bank we are looking for more conservation.

The best bit about my job is:

There isn’t “a” best bit, there are lots of best bits about my job. I am part of one of the most important pieces of work in the world trying to keep the world green and blue, trying to make sure people value what we have and start looking after it.

The tiny bit I contribute is using some of my business experience to generate a better return for conservation. Day to day I get to talk about interesting things, see beautiful places and work with fun down to earth people!

The awesome-est DOC moment I’ve had so far is:

Some kind person nominated me to act as a DOC representative on one of the heritage trips to the subantarctic islands. It was a trip of a lifetime. I fell in love with the islands, especially Campbell Island. Words cannot describe how magic the islands are. The scenery is amazing, the seals cute and sea lions a little unnerving. I have never sat for so long as I sat watching the penguins at Macquarie Island, it was just fascinating.

The DOC employee that inspires or enthuses me most is:

Tim Fraser, even when he isn’t here I can sense him resisting my “no”. I admire his creativity and way of pulling together concepts in a completely new and creative way. I also love how he keeps people connected and makes people feel welcome and happy.

Kirsten Ralph planting some trees.

A 40th birthday present

On a personal note…

My stomping ground is:

It’s not really a stomping ground but a place that my soul feels good in. When we go there, even the dog walks taller. We have a small patch of hill over-looking the end of Queen Charlotte Sound. We never really intended to buy it but, being kid free and South Islanders, it meant we felt we had a foot back home. Overlooking the Mount Oliver reserve we can see waterfalls, look out over native bush and then down over the Sound checking out the boats and ferries. Time is slow, even doing the dishes is fun.

Kirsten Ralph in her kitchen in Queen Charlotte Sound.

The kitchen in the Sounds

My best ever holiday was:

When I was much younger, having nothing to do, I walked into a dive shop and asked if there were any trips for novices. Yep they had one, with a bunch of trainee dive instructors, going to White island – ideal!

It was magic. One of those local dive trips that beats the tropics. The fish were everywhere and the rocks covered in anemones, seaweeds and all sorts of weird and colourful life forms.

One night dive, the phosphorescence was like a light show. Nobody wanted to get out so, to conserve air, some kind soul threw all the plastic chairs off the boat and we sat there watching.

My greatest sporting moment was when:

I decided to enter a half marathon. I can’t remember much, so the run must have been fine, although the end did require some mental effort.

In my spare time:

I try to play with my kids, Kyah (8) and Kade (4). We are renovating our house and the builder is Matt my husband. So as soon as I am off work duty I am on kids duty and he is on building duty. Kayh and Kade have both decided to take up soccer and I have joined the ranks of the weekend sports parents.

My secret indulgence is:

Well they aren’t secret—everyone that works with me knows coffee is the mainstay of life—to be savoured and enjoyed regularly.

Those who are around the charity chocolate box about 3.30 in the afternoon will know that chocolate also means quite a lot to me and, on especially bad days, could just about be devoured before getting back to my desk. Really, the hard choice when it comes to chocolate is which one is the biggest.

Kirsten Ralph on Macquarie island with penguins in the background.

Trying to look official as a DOC representative on Macquarie island

Deep and meaningful…

My favourite quote is:

Actually I heard it as part of a Sinead O’Conner song but it is a little older than that: “Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can’t change. The courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference”.

The best piece of advice I’ve ever been given is: 

“Just breath through the nose” this was after a discussion on the difficulties of encouraging decision making on a topic incorporating some risk in a government department. I have used it during many work situations since.

In work and life I am motivated by: 

It’s the people around who get things done. Especially those people who are always doing things for the community—the ones who manage to have four kids, go to work, turn out muffins for the play centre, be on the PTA, and turn out edible meals for families in need and then have time to coach the local team. Plus they don’t yell at their kids.

My conservation advice to New Zealanders is:

I include myself in this, as I am a long way from where I would like to be: Stop consuming, recycle and reuse.

Kirsten Ralph with her two children at a waterfall.

A scenic interlude on a rainy ski day

Question of the week…

In my next life I will:

I always said the best thing to come back as would be my father’s cat. She ruled the roost. My father fed her by hand, let her sleep on his chest and, if she was asleep on his knee he wouldn’t move for fear of disturbing her. He pretty much did anything she meowed for. She returned the favourite with adoration. I, of course, have no recollection of my childhood being anything like that.

Come behind the scenes and into the jobs, the challenges, the highlights, and the personalities of the people who work at the Department of Conservation (DOC).

Today we profile David Agnew, Conservation Services Manager, Dunedin.

David Agnew in the office.

In the office

At work

Some things I do in my job include:

Managing a large team, working on multiple issues at once, trying to keep my desk tidy, my phone clear of messages, and my inbox under control. Also engaging with a wide range of staff from all over the country, plus engaging with a large range of partners, stakeholders and community. And having fun while I’m doing it all!

This helps achieve DOC’s vision by:

Doing great conservation work, with others, and aiming to continually improve efficiency and effectiveness. Also I reckon it is really important that we portray a positive image of ourselves and our organisation. We’re lucky to have such interesting jobs.

The best bit about my job is:

Achieving some great conservation results, plus the mix of getting to a lot of different places and having quality time with a lot of different people (both DOC staff and associates). I have been able to live on Great Barrier Island for 3 years as well as Invercargill, and have worked in many amazing parts of this country from Northland, all of the New Zealand subantarctic islands (including the Australian island of Macquarie) as well as several trips out to the Chathams. Don’t ask me where my favourite place is because I’m not sure.

The strangest DOC moment I’ve had so far is:

Being on a boat getting transported off Kapiti Island with a whole lot of religious folk who were on a pilgrimage to bless the island. They stopped the motors at the southern and northern ends of the island and started to pray/bless and speak in tongues then when they started saying “the evil beast is amongst them and needs to be killed” I started to wonder if they were referring to me (that was the scary bit). I was relieved when the engines were fired up, everyone returned to a normal state, and we sped back to the mainland.

The DOC (or previous DOC) employee that inspires or enthuses me most is:

There are many. But Marian van der Goes springs to mind. She was an inspiring leader, strong principles, very good with people, and had a good sense of fashion and fairness. She is missed down here.

David Agnew weighing an albatross chick at Taiaroa Head.

Weighing an albatross chick at Taiaroa Head

On a personal note…

Most people don’t know that:

I write the occasional poem for special occasions and then recite it (kind of like a cross between Sam Hunt and Dr Seuss).

The song that always cheers me up is:

“Not Given Lightly” by Chris Knox, you can’t help but sing along to it. And it reminds me of a fun night in Queenstown, at one of his shows, after a day’s skiing with Te Anau DOC staff.

My stomping ground is:

Around the Dunedin coastline, and especially the surf breaks of national significance along the north coast (check out the Coastal Policy Statement).  If you are a surfer, then Dunedin is a great place to be – just need to invest in good wetsuits and accessories.

My best ever holiday was:

Sailing on a yacht from Singapore to Sri Lanka, then travelling overland through India for a couple of months. A memorable experience, to say the least. We experienced everything from pirates to water spouts.

My greatest sporting moment was when:

Perhaps when I was involved in giving some frisbee demonstrations at the world expo in Brisbane back in 1988. Either that or the wheelchair basketball games I was involved in for a while, great fun.

David Agnew on Auckland Island.

On South West Cape of Auckland Island

Deep and meaningful…

My favourite quote is:

“You only live once” not sure where it came from originally, or “Carpe Diem” (seize the day), taken from a poem written in the Odes in 23 BC by the Latin poet Horace.

But I also like “Nek Minute” by Levi Hawken.

The best piece of advice I’ve ever been given is: 

“Try not to have any regrets” – make the most of your opportunities.

In work and life I am motivated by:

Striving to do the best I can, being loyal to the above quote, and also ensuring there’s plenty of variety and that I appreciate and enjoy the experience.

My conservation advice to New Zealanders is:

“Think global, and act local” – everyone should be trying to make a difference in their own place.

David Agnew with mountains in the background.

Heliskiing near Mt Aspiring/Tititea

Question of the week…

What funny story does your family always tell about you?

About the time that I was “seriously” stuck for words – they reckon it doesn’t happened that often, but this was “one of those moments when you wish you could disappear” and a valuable lesson.

At a garage sale we were having when leaving Christchurch for Wellington (one of our many DOC moves) a lady (wearing a see through skirt) had brought something and was paying me.  I was sitting in a very low camping chair and was trying to decide if she was pregnant.  I was certain that she was, so asked the inevitable question – “when is your baby due?”

The answer was, “I had my baby 20 years ago” – whoops.

Then she jumped in her car and disappeared up a driveway straight across the road – at least we were leaving town!

Needless to say, I’ll never ask that question again.